Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back, guys, to the drone on show. Dude, special guest with us today. I don't know how it's going to go yet, but I'm sure we're going to get into some juicy situations about, you know, using spray drones and normal aerial application, I would say helicopters or airplanes. Eugene, if you want to introduce yourself and give us a little bit of background about, you know, who you are, where you're from and what you do.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Yeah, my name is Eugene Pinelli. I'm out of Bakersfield, California, in Kern county, central California. And you know, this last summer I decided to transition. I've been lifelong, you know, ag and fresh produce career. Decided to get into aerial applications primarily using drones. And I worked with a crop dusting outfit. They have airplanes, helicopters, and they were starting to integrate drones into their operation. And so I was the drone pilot working alongside, you know, the helicopter and the airplanes.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Nice. And all of your operations was done in California?
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, all in Kern and Tulare county is just north of us.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Okay, dude, I'm, I'm going to California on Monday.
Close to the Sacramento area. Holy smokes. The fields there look mind blowingly huge compared to what we have here in Ohio. I mean, if we get in a 25 to 30 acre field, we think we're doing good. But those fields over there, just looking at it on Google Maps, looks crazy.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, a lot of ag out here. You know, there's a ton of ag out here. A lot of well managed, large fields, ton of acreage. Yeah, there's definitely quite a bit out here.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: So how many acres did you end up getting covered with your drones and with that, what, what drones were you running?
[00:01:45] Speaker B: We were running two T50s and one at a time. Ran about 2000 acres this summer and, you know, looking to, you know, upgrade my fleet and go out on my own exclusively using drones.
And so, yeah, I'm starting that process right now.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: So how, you know, the farmers or the customers that you guys have been working for in the past, how are they adapting to spray drones? Like what's making them want, you know, want to use the spray drone?
[00:02:15] Speaker B: You know, it's, it's kind of a case by case basis, I think. What's, what's. What we've seen with the crop dusting outfit is they were wanting to integrate the drone as a way to get in places that they couldn't get into, cover edges, overflow. You know, if I was, you know, the owner of crop dusting outfit, that's exactly how I do it. I'd use my planes and my helicopters and use the drones for the edges and the places they can't go. And that's exactly what we did this summer. It was, it was great. There was, you know, places that they had been into. For instance, you know, there was, there was a field, we were doing some corn and there was just wires everywhere, just power lines everywhere. And they had previously done that with a helicopter. I remember it was a long day and I just remember, you know, talking to the pilot saying, how did you do that in a helicopter? How did you fly in and out of there? Because I'm not in the aircraft and I'm stressed out the whole day.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So you guys aren't necessarily using the drones to cover the whole fields. You're just cleaning up the corners and the edges?
[00:03:11] Speaker B: Nope. Typically I would get the whole field. You know, I worked, you know, this summer during the busy season, so typically we kind of look at everything we had and I would either get the more difficult fields or if everything was kind of more or less accessible, they would just give me, you know, 50, 70, you know, 180 and I would cover that. Yeah.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Okay. And that, that was with T50s how. I. I don't know if you've seen much on the T1 hundreds yet. With the 26 gallon tank. What volume are you guys usually spraying at? Is the same as us when we're doing fungicide. Two to three gallon work?
[00:03:42] Speaker B: No, so that's the thing. Out here in California, we primarily saw 5 to 10 gallon work. And I think that's why a little bit tough to do to use, you know, drones. And so that's why, you know, competing. And so the having the T. T1 hundreds is going to be, is going to be huge out here. As these drones get bigger, you're going to see more drones out here.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: Yeah. So large volume, you know, 5 to 10 gallon. Word, that's, that's a, that's a lot of gallons per acre for a 10 gallon drone. That's for sure.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Real long day.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: So what type of product are you spraying on these, you know, these crops that are needing that high volume.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: So I think it's not, not too different from what you guys are doing over there. You know, there's, there's quite a bit of, you know, dairies out here. I think we've got like half a million head of, you know, dairy cattle, you know, or wow, cows between Kern and Flaherty County. So there's, you know, a lot to feed them, a lot of corn, a lot of Alfalfa. There's even, you know, there's been a big downturn over the last, you know, 30 years in cotton, but there's still quite a bit of cotton acreage out here. You know, we've seen things like beans and some of the things that I think will start to provide, you know, crop protection for in, you know, as these drones get bigger. What we've seen is, you know, grape root stock. There's plenty of vineyards out here, and there's a ton of tree nuts. So we've got pistachios and almonds. Hundreds of thousands of acres of those things.
As, like I said, we're able to get more down, you know, with bigger drones. I think there's going to be more use in those fields.
[00:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah, that's interesting. You know, I.
It's kind of like when you're not in an area, you don't think about it. But like, when I think of California, I definitely don't think of huge crop fields, that is for sure. I would say when I think of California, I don't know if you're like this Lennon, but I'm thinking Hollywood, like, make movies there.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: So to hear that you're doing, you know, huge fields with drones and that. That California is a big ag state, it's pretty interesting to hear what all you guys have out there.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: I mean, I think they refer to the Central Valley where I'm at as the breadbasket of the nation. You know, we not only provide so much to the nation, you know, it's. It's to the world. There's a lot of exports out of here. We are. One thing I failed to mention was carrots. So we provide the most. We grow the most acreage of carrots. You know, if you go to the grocery store right now, you know, I'm sure you're going to see one of the two main companies is selling all the carrots in your store. And they're probably grown out of here. If they're not, it's probably a subsidiary of one of those two companies. So ton of carrots, you know, and then, you know, all your table grapes, you know, all your tree nuts, they're all. They're all from out here.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: Wow. Wow. Okay. So you were working with traditional aerial application airplanes and helicopters. Do they see you as competition?
[00:06:35] Speaker B: I think so. You know, working directly with them. I think there. There was a little bit of a biased nature. I think that the pilots, you know, insist that we're not a threat to them. And, you know, I'll tell you when you're standing on top of a trailer and you're next to a helicopter, that just completely buzzes by you. I kind of saw that myself. You know, it was like one of the things that was mentioned on that podcast about, you know, man being better than dragons. Drones is payload capacity and the speed at which they could fly. I mean, it's just unparalleled.
But yeah, I think they start to see it. They won't admit to it, but I think they know that we are competition. And as technology advances, the drones get bigger. We're gonna.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I go back to my tree climbing days. Like, I'm an arborist, I climb trees, and there's definitely.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: This thing about, oh, equipment's never going to replace me because I was really good at climbing and taking trees down with cranes and stuff. And then these other cranes came along that like, had these elbows and they actually grab a hold of the tree way up high and cut it off and then bring it down like that. I almost feel like, and this is not trying to bash the, the pilots. It's. It almost feels like it's.
And it's good. It's a brotherhood and they want to hold the line and keep it know, keep their industry as long as they can because of technology that's moving their way.
And I think, and I was, I was feeding into it a little myself when I started with my content is, you know, we're coming for you. But I don't think it has to be that way. I do think that as companies that are traditional aerial application using airplanes or helicopters are going to start adapting the equipment that is coming up the line that is going to probably at some point cover more acres than an airplane, I think. So. Not the same machine. Right. Let me make myself clear. Not one machine to one airplane. It takes many machines to do what one airplane does. But the cost, I think that's where we're headed.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I would agree. As the drones get bigger and airplanes and helicopter become more cost prohibitive, you will see a shift. And if I had airplanes and helicopters, I would definitely integrate drones into my operation. It just makes every bit of sense.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And let's be honest, that is super dangerous, that job. I mean, there's. Every year there's pilots dying from doing that type of work. Yes, we will crash drones, but at least it's not losing lives doing this.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: Yeah, no. And in my, when I, when I worked outside of the aerial application industry, I, I watched and you know, plane go down. You know, I don't know, about 500 yards from me and you know, with no way where we're at, I've seen, you know, I, I think we've, we definitely have a shortage of pilots.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: When he seen that plane, was the pilot okay?
[00:09:45] Speaker B: No, no, he passed.
We were right next to an airport and something happened at takeoff and he went down.
Wow.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: So he was max gross weight probably and there was just not enough airspeed to carry.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know the specifics on it. I just remember seeing the, you know, the fire trucks head through our field and you know, I was going to head out there to see what was going on and once I figured it out, I turn, turned around.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: Wow, that's like the guy that gave me my first big opportunity in spray drones is a helicopter spray pilot. Like, and he's frickin good. Like, he, he is known as one of the best helicopter pilots to spray fields. But he already, three years ago was like, Mike, I'm slowly trying to adopt the technology because even though he knows he's as good as he is and you know, one machine, one drones, never going to do what he can do himself, he knows that many drones will do what he does. And he's like, Mike, you know, we fly so on the edge all the time that it's not, you know, if you crash, it's basically kind of like it's when you crash and how bad is it?
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's certainly the case. And you know, disease, pressure and crop protection is, you know, a lot of times comes from the edges and the edges are where the danger's at. So yeah, there's definitely something to that.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: So how'd you, how'd you get in aerial application with that company originally? What, what made you apply for a job or, or.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: So what happened was, you know, I, like I said, I was always involved in agriculture and farming and you know, when I was outside of aerial applications, my, the farming company I was working for had gotten involved in aerial imagery. They were using manned aircraft to do multispectral thermal imagery. And we were starting to look at drones and you know, as I learned more about that, I started to believe in the future of that imagery, diagnosing crop health through, you know, the multispectral imagery. And so I started on a path of looking to provide that service. You know, manned aircraft with, you know, very high dollar camera equipment can do a good job. But as you know, these DGI products and some of the other products, you know, doing multi spectral thermal imagery, they can, they can get equivalent Level imagery by flying at a lower altitude. So I started to talk to farmers that I knew and network and, you know, I kind of hit a roadblock in doing that. They, they, you know, I, I think a lot of growers would say to me, you know, what do I need those images for? I can just walk my field and diagnose it. And, and to be honest, I don't think that they're wrong in saying that. I think there's a little bit of growth that the technology needs. You know, processing and doing all that with imagery is a lot of work.
And then you need, you know, agronomists and crop consultants to be willing to look at that imagery and interpret that for the grower. And so that whole disconnect kind of, you know, led me to believe that there wasn't, you know, maybe a living in it. But I do believe in the future. So just about as I was about to throw in the towel, a crop consultant mentioned to me, said, you know, I know these guys, they're using drones. They've got airplanes and helicopters, but they're starting to use drones. You should, you should talk to them. And so I reached out and, you know, my understanding from the farming side was that drones couldn't carry a payload. They had short, you know, short flight times. It just wasn't quite there. And so when I talked to the crop dusters, they said, hey, you know, we're looking for a pilot. You know, know, why don't you come out and check it out sometime? And I remember we went out there, it was a squash field, so 40 acre squash field. And I'm driving out there and just as I'm, you know, getting to the field, I see this just massive drone laying down. I think they were doing five gallons an acre, maybe 10.
And it was funny, it was a job interview for me, but I had a hard time, like, holding back my, my, like, childhood grin, you know, I was just like, this is so cool. And, you know, I had to do everything it had, took everything from me to just not offer myself, you know, these services for free to pilot that aircraft, you know, but, you know, the big takeaway for me there was, yes, there isn't a large flight time. There isn't, you know, a big payload, but you can land 50, you can swap the battery, and you can fill that thing up in just a minute and be back in the sky.
[00:14:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that was my biggest thing, you know, like, not understanding the equipment is not realizing that it's a bunch of small loads often. So in the field back. And so I like to tell guys this or I say it all the time.
There's a saying, many hands make light work. I just say many drones make light work. The more you go, the quicker it gets done. And the more drones you have, the easier it is. 5 to 10 gallon work. I will say though, if you have a 10 gallon drone, that's gonna be lots of loads. But your battery, I mean, doggone, you're probably getting how many loads per battery. If you're doing 10 gallon work with.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: The right generator and, you know, three or four batteries, you're really not, you're not really pressing those batteries too often. You're basically inefficient or you make a mistake if you have to wait for those batteries to catch up.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: Talking about that, the system. What system are you running as far as charger system and generator?
[00:15:04] Speaker B: At the time we were running the Kubota, I think it was a 14,000.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Four batteries, typically we'd use three and just had one just in case.
And then the one T54 nozzle system.
And typically, you know, as long as things were safe, flying full speed.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: What were you using, a CA,000 or a C,10,000 charger?
[00:15:25] Speaker B: It was an 8,000, 8,002. The charging cradles, we were able to keep up.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. If you're doing that heavy volume, that's good. Yeah. Because my systems, all the systems that I set up, I just do the whole DJI ecosystem, generator, drone, batteries, chargers, the whole nine yards. A lot of guys don't like the DJI generators because they're loud. There is no doubt they are definitely loud, but they supercharge the batteries for sure. If you're doing two to three gallon work, you got to have that charge speed. But for your situation, it sounds like the C8000 is no problem with that heavy volume. So that's good.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: We did have a time where we used the DJI generator and I can tell you. Yeah, I mean, definitely, you know, not having issues with the battery. It was much better to use the diesel and, and not have that noise.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Yep. That being said, I do believe that the 14,000 generator, I don't know. Did you ever have DJI generator issues with the DC module or anything like that?
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Not with the DC module. We did have some issues.
We needed to get the. I believe it was the fuel. There was a sensor we needed to replace.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: Yep, yep.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: We had on the 12,000 the generator you were running. Probably we had more issues with that. But since the 14,000, I was running with the T60X, pretty impressed with the changes that they've made is like they seen where the weak points were and it feels like they re re engineered some of those on the 14,000. So I'm curious to see how it lasts. But the T60 has definitely. It worked better, but it's still frigging loud. I'm trying to figure out how to tone down that noise.
But again, if you can get away with a diesel generator running the way you're running, that's the way to go. Because obviously they don't have to run such high RPMs.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's another thing is, you know, when you get into this business, it's like people use you trying to get in cost effectively. And then some guys approach us about a DJI generate or not just a DJI generator, but a diesel generator. And the cost of a diesel generator is substantially more money if you look at it per kilowatt and weight on it. But yeah, that's cool to hear that you have no problem with your charging solution. So since you were running the T50s, are you looking, what are you looking to do with your business? Are you looking to scale, add more drones, add bigger drones, more trailers?
[00:17:57] Speaker B: I want to go with the T100. You know, I think, you know, I recently got my 137 and I'm trying to decide just with everything that's going on, you know, I do believe DJI offers the best solution. They have the best drones. I think there's other solutions on the horizon that I think you mentioned before on your podcast. We want to go American, but I don't know that we're quite there yet. So I want to do what's best for the grower and what's best for my business. And so, you know, I want to stay in the DJI ecosystem. I hope that can, you know, that can work until we have, you know, better and more safer options.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yep. Did you try and demo any other models out there that were not dji?
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Oh, I've been out there and seen, you know, the xag, there's another.
Recently went to see an American manufacturer and it looks great, but the one.
[00:18:54] Speaker A: That was painted yellow.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: Oh, you were at that event?
[00:18:59] Speaker B: I was at. Not the one back east. There was one they did out here in Salinas, actually.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, so I went to the one in Vermont when they released it there, the 40 gallon drone, but the prototype they had there was only 35 gallon drone at the time.
Yeah, I think it's one that I saw looking at that platform, I think it has a chance, has a long road ahead of it. Just putting some equipment together and having a drone that looks like it functions is one thing.
Having it be reliable and user friendly and the user interface is probably going to be the biggest battle that somebody has getting into this industry.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I think software is a big part of this stuff. And you know, and you know, with, with all this technology, the best way to weed out bugs is to have a large amount of users identifying issues and reporting back to the manufacturer. And so, yeah, you know, I, I, you know, I hope that there is a solution outside of this, you know, what we're dealing with with dgi. But the, the best way to have a successful reliable solution is to have just that. And so we're going to need a lot of guys to hop on board with another platform and work with the manufacturer to weed out the bugs. You know, I don't know.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: But the biggest problem with hopping on another system is reliability because you know how important it is. If we're going out there and we got the farmer's product mixed up and we have drones go down because of unknown reasons, that's going to affect not only us as a applicator business, but the farmer as well, because he needs his stuff done and he needs it done now. So that's my biggest problem about adopting a new technology is the reliability of it just getting it to the point where it's, it doesn't break down when you're in the field.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you, you, you want to be on the cutting edge, but not the razor's edge is something I learned.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: And yeah. So I'm not going to be the one to, to learn from the mistakes. You know, I'm gonna, But hopefully the manufacturer can work with operators and themselves to invest in and weed out the bugs.
[00:21:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
My biggest thing is that I'd like the listeners to hear this is if you are going to adopt a new drone, do not sell your old fleet. That's my most important thing is I have no problem in somebody switching. Right. Like going to whatever new drone that they want to go to. But if you sell your old equipment and you go all in and something goes sideways, like I know that some companies had this happen with a drone that they switched to, then it took them so long to either get the problem resolved or, you know, buy new drones.
It's not a good idea to switch. Let's say you're a DJI system, like you are selling both of your T50s and going and buying two other models because say something goes wrong with, you know, that new model, you literally have no way of getting your product onto your customers fields. So I, anybody, listen, be very careful if you're, if you're going to do that just because we haven't seen enough to see how reliable they are.
So what's the spray season like in California in your area? Like what's, what's the window look like?
[00:22:27] Speaker B: So California does have, you know, benefit, unlike other regions is we do go year round.
I would say, oh my gosh, I haven't got experienced a winter. I don't expect to do, you know, more than 5 or 10% of my business between, you know, now and March or April. But there is, is a spray season during those months.
So we are able to, you know, there's a lot of herbicide work available and you know, there's, like I said, there's, you know, alfalfa is going a few times they're turning that quite a bit.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: So. Have you personally sprayed alfalfa?
[00:23:02] Speaker B: I have.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: Why would they use an aerial application over just ground rigs and alfalfa?
[00:23:11] Speaker B: It's a good question. You know, I, you know, I don't know. They typically in the experiences I had with alfalfa, they were either, you know, commissioning the helicopter, the airplane and either it was a tough spot to get to or, you know, it was kind of an overflow job for me.
But yeah, we run into that a lot. You know, the growers are going to want to use their ground rigs and so, you know, maybe the stage of growth that it's in.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: Okay.
I didn't know if the growers talked to you. You know, when my alfalfa is this tall and I run through it with my ground rig, I'm damaging this much, which is causing me to lose something.
And that's why he wants to use the aerial. I wasn't sure because like beans, if you're doing soybeans here, farmers are starting to go to aerial application drones specifically because it's moving the canopy around. They're getting a better coverage than you would with a ground rig and they don't have to crush their crop. And they say that they lose about four bushels to the acre if they're running, running over it. So I wasn't sure if there's a calculation like that with alfalfa or not.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: I can definitely say, you know, we did some beans and that was probably one of the biggest crops where the grower actually came Back to us and they said, we love the drone. We want to stick with the. The drone.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:24:26] Speaker B: So there's not many beans out here where we're at, but where they are at, we'll definitely be, you know, targeting those with drones.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: So back to the old aerial company that you were working for. Did they do any night applications?
[00:24:40] Speaker B: So I think they're starting to stray away from that. There was, there was some limited applications that they did with helicopter, but I see that's one of the biggest advantages of the drone is the ability to do night applications. And I think that's where, you know, there's that, you know, I think the drone is going to take the opportunities that the airplane and the helicopters can't, and that's going to be night opportunities, you know, scheduling opportunities, things like that. But night is one of the big advantages of using the drone.
[00:25:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. How much night did you do?
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Not very much.
So typically not very much. We were geared up for it. Unfortunately, one of our biggest night jobs, we had a technical issue, thankfully, before we did any mixing, so I didn't get to do much of that. But I do know talking to growers and getting feedback, there are definitely pests that are more easily targeted at night. And we're gearing up to be ready to do night applications. And I think that's a huge advantage and a big marketing opportunity for me.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I will say for myself, I did probably most of my fungicide application this year in Kentucky running at night. One, because not nearly as much wind. If we were doing insecticide, and we didn't do hardly any insecticide, just a few fields here and there, you wouldn't have to deal with bees, you know, killing off bees because they're not out at night. And then the, the other reason was, is it's much cooler. It's a lot better working environment than being out there in the blazing hot sun. And according to some of our growers, farmers were saying that they prefer night operations because the. It's more effective. And. But that's probably controversial because some people say that, yeah, they don't want to spray if there's going to be dew on the, on the plants.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: But, yeah, you know, I can't speak on the fungicide. I do know that in the vineyards and the tree nuts, there are definitely some pests, you know, when it comes to insecticides that are more easily targeted at night, you know, in addition to, you know, not dealing with the bees. So there's, there's definite.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: I'm curious to see how it goes when we go to California. There's I, I think he has mostly nut trees out there.
Want to see how many gallons an acre he's going to do. That type of operation he's going to have. I think he's going to run everything off of rtk.
You know, centimeter precision accuracy. You probably don't have to run RTK with most of the applications you're doing.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: We haven't really needed to know. It would have been nice, but no.
[00:27:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
What's your trailer setup look like?
[00:27:17] Speaker B: So going into this upcoming season, I'm looking to build something.
I'm trying to build a flatbed on like a 5500 I think. You know, I, I, we needed four wheel drive more often than I'd like, so I'd like to be on a setup like that.
The only limitation there is, you know, capacity. So you know, a 5500 with as much capacity as we can get on it, we're going to pull like a small water trailer. I think is, is the best option starting out. You know, unfortunately there are some restrictions in California. I think we have a lower weight limit before we have to get a cdl. And there's not exemptions, there's exemptions for growers, but there's not exemptions for for hire custom applicators. So yeah, you know, as the business, if it gets rolling in, we're going to have to take a look at that and probably do a gooseneck application.
[00:28:07] Speaker A: Cool. So you mentioned a truck build out. I went to the end user Spray conference last year and did a lot of podcasts where I was just sitting down having conversations just like we are now with applicators.
And my thing was I was thinking a trailer is for everyone, but I quickly found out that that is not accurate.
Lots of pickup truck setups and hoping to release soon.
Don't hold me to this, but in the next few months I will be releasing something that's not been released yet for pickup trucks. And I think it's going to change how applicators like yourself are going to get stuff done. So I'm excited to do that because like yourself, you're going to build something.
And I'm really curious to know that if what I'm building would work for a guy like yourself. But let's just say that it hasn't been built yet and it will be able to fit in any standard dually pickup. And the whole solution, the whole package, it's pretty impressive.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I would encourage that if I've Learned anything. Growers like to grow on their land. They don't want to build giant, you know, wide roads.
And I can understand that. But from the operational side, it makes things difficult. So it's good to be able to get in there.
[00:29:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool. So if you, if you, so you have two drones, but mostly were, were you flying one at a time or staggering them in your app never swarmed?
[00:29:38] Speaker B: There was a couple times we worked with a grower that had, that had their own drone. So we would, you know, kind of split the field in half and kind of work like that off the same tank, but never swarmed. Looking to do that this upcoming season, depending on the equipment available and the need.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: I'm curious to know, is there a lot of red tape in California, like outside of like needing your commercial pesticide applicators license, your part 107, your 137, your exemption, that type of stuff.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: So from exploring, you know, starting my own drone applicating business in California, I notice it's from the drone side, it's not too much different in terms of regulatory. You do, you know, I imagine you have to have a state pesticide license in most of these states from what I've heard. So you do need to have a pest control business license, you do need to have a pest control pilot's license.
So I wouldn't call that too much red tape compared to some of the other things I've seen in California. The big thing that I think is different in California, that I think happens from other states, is the grower, in order to apply material to his crop, he needs to have a recommendation from what's called the pca, a pest control advisor. So because of that, that's like almost like a prescription, right?
So the grower doesn't get to decide, you know, unless he has his own in house PCA or he has his own license. So, you know, from a marketing and from, you know, approaching the grower standpoint, you know, there's someone else typically that you have to interact with to, you know, seek and get the business.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: So somebody that has no experience that's wanting to try to start a, you know, spray drone business in California, what are some words of wisdom you could.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: Give them or her, you know, let's see. Talking about regulatory and red tape, you know, I, I just, I made it. Had to make a spreadsheet the other day just because I couldn't believe the amount of certifications I had to get. I'm up to like 22 now. So between tests Licenses and, you know. You know, and I'm including business licenses categories on my website, but it's. Yeah, there's quite a bit.
So just be organized, be diligent, and give yourself some time. You know, I think I started this process in late September.
[00:31:51] Speaker A: So when I started this, I was looking at all the stuff I had to go through. It was literally to the point where I was like, screw this. This is almost too much. I'm done. Because it was literally that much. But then I had to think, you know, I was thinking of not doing it because of that. And I was like, well, that's a market in itself. It's. It's keeping the market from becoming flooded, although there's a lot of people still getting in it because they're not scared of that. Do you feel that in any way, like, it's like the market is growing, people are getting in it, but it's growing slow because of all the rules and regs.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think California's behind the rest of the, you know, the Midwest when it comes to joint applications. I think that's in part because of the red tape. And it's also, you know, because what we talked about, the higher gallons per acre applications.
But yeah, definitely there is a market in. Because, you know, the expansive regulatory issues that we deal with in California. I just read, you know, there was a study, I think, from Cal Poly. They stated, I think regulatory cost for crop production was just under 2% in the early 2000s, and it's now, it's. It's over 12%.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: Jeez.
Yeah, that is wild.
Geez.
So your buddies that you were working with, or, you know, the aerial company, they know you're going to expand. Guys are still getting along.
[00:33:22] Speaker B: I, you know, I wouldn't say that. You know, they. They wish me well in my journey. And, you know, I will say this. You know, they're very forward thinking. If, like I said, if I had an airplane and a helicopter, I would integrate a drone. A lot of their competition, you know, refused or didn't think of doing that. So, you know, they understand the landscape, and we'll see. We'll see what happens this upcoming season.
[00:33:49] Speaker A: That's a nice way to put it there. There was something I was going to ask you.
So obviously you're gonna scale the.
The cost of entry to get into drones.
Would you say that that's like a. Was that a big hurdle for you to be like, okay, I'm going to invest. What did you invest? 50 to 60,000 in your drones for two drones?
[00:34:11] Speaker B: So, so the two drones, the two T50s were my previous employers. So going into investment, like, so what I did was actually, I'm, I'm, I was leasing a T40 for my whole 44, 807 and my, my 137. Actually, after I get off this podcast, I'm going to go out and buy a drone. So I'm going to go, most likely I'm going to be getting a T100 here soon. The investment's going to be well over that. When I talk about truck and trailer and all that, it is going to be north of $100,000. Yeah.
[00:34:44] Speaker A: So, okay, if you're willing to share, because you guys are doing higher volume.
[00:34:50] Speaker A: What'S an average cost for area application in that area of the, you know, California?
[00:34:55] Speaker B: What I'm going to say is it's much greater than what I've heard about in the Midwest. I don't think we could make it work. I think I've heard as low as $8 out there in the Midwest that just absolutely, you know, we need to be, you know, well over double that. So what I can say is, you know, if we're competing, you know, we're not going to compete on the speed or the acreage with an airplane or helicopter, but at their rate, at the rates that those guys are charging you, you.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: Can make sense if you have a wide open field.
Typically with the drone, we're getting tougher jobs, so we need to charge north of that and target the growers that, you know, want those quality jobs, that need the jobs that, you know, the airplane and helicopter can get into and that are willing to pay for it.
[00:35:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: And that's tough in this landscape because not only is, you know, farming's tough, it's been tough for everybody in the nation. It's really tough out here in California.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: It's been a tough year. There is no doubt about it.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:35:50] Speaker A: That being said, obviously you've had. Had connections in the, in the grower space. You've had those connections. But how do you try to get new work? Like, what are you doing to make those connections of people that you maybe haven't ever talked to? What are you doing to try new clients?
[00:36:08] Speaker B: So, you know, it's funny, you know, talking to people, people that I knew, the connections I've had, or they've introduced me to others, they already knew about me. They said, oh, I, I heard that drone was flying over there. Somebody told me the drone was flying, and we went and drove over there. So there's A lot of people that actually watched me from afar, I never knew were there.
But that's, that's kind of what it is, is you just, you, you try to talk to a grower and their neighbors and then like I said, there's a network of pest control advisors. And so, you know, if they like your work, they're going to be, you know, having you do jobs for the different growers. So it's like networking like anything else.
[00:36:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And most of your work is directly with the grower, not with like co ops. We call them co ops. It's where the farmer would go to buy his chemical here. Oftentimes we would work for that company because they've already made the connection with the farmer. Is that, do you work at all like that?
[00:37:06] Speaker B: I think there will be some of that. I haven't worked directly with any co ops up to this point, but I know that in the tree nut industry and dairy there's definitely some co ops and that probably will help facilitate some work.
But mostly it's typically directly with the grower.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: Interesting. It's just so crazy to think here in the states how, how vast our farming industry is. Like I was so small mind thinking, I was thinking there's, it's corn and beans. And then I went to the spray drone end user conference and I figured out very quickly that it is vastly different from California to Maine to Minnesota to now California, all the different crops that we actually grow in the states.
I personally don't have a lot of experience doing rice, but then I sell drones to people that are spraying rice and they're doing five gallon work like yourself. And so it's just really cool. That's why I like the podcast. That's why I like being able to sit down with guys like yourself. And I appreciate you taking the time and is just to open up more brain thoughts of other people that might be in that area. Like, oh my gosh, I didn't know that that much alfalfa is grown in California or that there's, you know, these nut trees out here and stuff like that. So it's really cool. Do you have something?
[00:38:26] Speaker B: It's definitely different. There's, you know, it is California but we've, you know, there's, there's plenty of acreage everywhere and you know, for the longest time, you know, listening to your podcast, wondering why the Midwest was adopting to the technology so fast and we weren't and you know, spraying over the summer, doing my research, starting my own business, I'm starting to understand why but now we're at a point where it can be adopted.
[00:38:49] Speaker A: Out here, is there pasture land close to you, like where there's like beef cows where you go and spray for broadleaf or anything like that in pastures?
[00:38:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I haven't heard of any of that work being done with drones, but there's definitely. There's definitely.
Yeah, some, some beef cattle out here.
[00:39:07] Speaker A: So you said you're going to go buy a drone, and obviously I sell drones. What. What makes an applicator like yourself choose a drone retailer? Like what? I'm trying to figure this out. You know, as. As the business is growing, what would make you go to a guy down the street or buy from a guy online in the Midwest? What would be the difference for you?
[00:39:29] Speaker B: I think it's just like these, these growers. I think you need to find someone that you can trust. Unfortunately, you know, if the industry was more developed in California, but if I was out there in your area, I would find someone more closer by that could support me. Because I think the biggest fear for me is if I go down, how am I going to get back up right away?
I think the easiest solution is to have two drones or multiple aircraft. But, you know, it'd be really nice. You know, there's actually a retailer in Northern California that I was talking to, and it's just like, I know that if there's something that happens, he's going to stock parts, he's going to be able to throw in the back of his truck and come down to me. And that's, I think, the most important thing.
[00:40:10] Speaker A: That's good. That's good to know. So essentially you're going to buy local because you know that that guy is going to Stockports. That way, if you do go down, you're not down for a day and a half to over overnight something, you can just go there and pick up those parts.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: That's valuable for me because I am trying to continue to figure out the industry. I sell drones all over the country. Obviously you heard I'm coming to California. I've sold drones in California. But I want to know, how can I serve guys like yourself better? And it sounds like it's going to get to the point where, right, the more drones that are out there, we are going to have to have locations somewhat central in the, in the busy hubs. And to hear it come from you, it's clear that that is how applicators would prefer to transact is with somebody that's local that they can quickly get parts if they need to. How far would you be willing to drive to go get those parts? Obviously, you know, you and I are. What would it take to drive from here? Probably 40 hours.
[00:41:15] Speaker B: Yeah, quite a bit. So, I mean, I don't know. I would like to be back in a day, so, you know, but it's whatever it takes. You've got to take care of that grower.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: Yeah, whatever. I'm just trying to figure out how many it would take around a certain area. So, like. Like yourself. So if you'd have to drive three hours one way, that's not a deal breaker for you?
[00:41:34] Speaker B: No, I would say probably five. Yeah.
[00:41:36] Speaker A: Okay. All right, That's. That's good.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: Because you hope you're not doing that every. Every day. You know, you're hoping that's a rare occasion.
[00:41:42] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: And that's. It is what it is.
[00:41:45] Speaker A: Yep. Exactly. Yeah. And the guy that you can buy from, is he less than five hours?
[00:41:52] Speaker B: Yeah, he's right about there. He's right about there. Yeah.
[00:41:55] Speaker A: Okay. Well, I'm just asking you those questions for myself as we are building out this network, New ag. And so if there's. Because, dude, I want to see nothing more than a guy like yourself be super successful. If I can sell you equipment and service, give you parts, get you parts in a way that's never been done before in the past. And right now. Right. It's just so hard to do that if I'm on the other side of the country.
But keep in mind, I'm not locked into this area, so I am looking at doing something like that. So thanks for sharing that.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: I think with the applicators, too, they're going to be servicing their own equipment because that's just something they need to do. But as this industry grows, I see growers getting more involved. If you've got a certain amount of acreage, especially out here in California, some of these, you know, there's some, you know, farmers that are dealing with, you know, tens of thousands of acres.
[00:42:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:46] Speaker B: And so I think there's going to be a need for, you know, service centers, hubs, you know, places that they can go. So areas like this one, it makes sense for somebody to be out here ready to, you know, deal with parts and service.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: Not just for the applicators, but the growers themselves.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: How many guys would you know that have drones somewhat within, you know, three. Three hours of you that I know?
[00:43:09] Speaker B: Gosh, I think. I bet you there's less than 10 outfits and within three hours of me. But I Think that's going to be rapidly expanding. You know, talking to some of the larger farming outfits that I'm aware of, they're all in talks to do their own drone thing. And so some of these guys, you know, I know a single company, if they decide to do drones, they'll probably buy 10, you know, maybe more. Just the amount of acres they have if they decide it's the technology they want to use.
[00:43:37] Speaker A: Wow, that is crazy.
So a guy asks you, am I too late to get in to start his own spray drone business in the area?
What do you. What do you tell them?
[00:43:48] Speaker B: I don't think so. I think as the technology progresses, you look at what an airplane and a helicopter can cover as you, you know, as the technology progresses and we're able to, you know, take some of that acreage, I think there's plenty of room for all of us.
[00:44:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I usually try to break it down by county. Like in my county, you know, there's a few hundred thousand acres of farmland. It's like there could be 10 trailers here. Right. If there's a half a million acres to do, dude, we'd all have to do like more than 50,000 acres each. And to try to do 50,000 acres with a drone, it's a big feat.
Not saying that it's not going to be done, you know, in the future, but like, there's so many acres that need sprayed or, you know, need treated in some way.
There's plenty to go around. Will there be competition in the future? Potentially, but it just takes so many drones to cover these acres. And like you said, I, you know, with time, you know, there will be acres that will be taken over that airplanes are doing currently.
Now, your higher volume, I don't know. I don't know how that's going to shake out. Bigger drones, bigger payload, that cirrus that they release, you know, 40 gallons, that is a big frigging drone. And you can hardly move to thing by yourself. And so how's that going to work? You know, bigger drones, I get it, right? Bigger drones, bigger payload. But at some point, what's too big?
[00:45:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the industry is going to just continue to rapidly change. I mean, if you really ask me right now, and this could change, but I think the future for some of these big fields will. Would be to use, I can't remember, is it pelican that that is an airplane? I think these large fields will use that. And what you'll do is you go in there with a drone, you'll get the Edges with, you know, a DJI or, you know, Cirrus drone. And the people that are doing the edges are going to be the spotter for that airplane, you know, that's flown from, you know, miles away. I think that's probably the future.
[00:45:54] Speaker A: Yeah. That's interesting. I don't, I don't see it because I don't see fields in my area that are big enough to do that. But that's not saying that, you know, your fields out there, they're obviously huge compared to here. I did see that thing flying on Instagram and I'm like, doggone it, that is pretty crazy to think that that thing can terrain follow that. Well, it's a fixed wing, right? I think that's what you're talking about.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: And I was thinking you guys probably have service roads out there that don't have power lines, and it could probably land right on the road and fill it up there. Huh. Or does it have to?
[00:46:29] Speaker B: And I think there's, there's, there's airports, there's a lot of private strips, and there are, you know, you know, public places where, you know, the crop dusters. There used to be a lot more crop dusters than there is now. And so there's, there's, there are strips that you can access. You know, if that plane goes as fast as they say it does and has decent battery power, you can travel a few miles, get the middle of the field, and get back to the airport.
[00:46:51] Speaker A: Hmm, that's interesting. All right, well, I don't want to take up more of your time. If you have anything else you'd like to add, add it in here. If there's somebody in your area that's a farmer. I don't know if farmers listen to this, but how do they get in contact with you?
[00:47:05] Speaker B: Call me. The name of my company is Varillo V I R E L O. Look me up on Instagram or Facebook, Virilo Ag, and be happy to come take a look.
You know, we could running demos this off season and get some applications done.
[00:47:23] Speaker A: Sweet. All right, well, like I said, I appreciate you being on here. I'm curious to know what you think of the T100 once you start running it. I will just give you my little bit of feedback on it. It's like, I thought it's going to be too big.
So when I went to China and I was messing with it there, I'm like, dog gone. It. This is a big drone and it's higher, you know, swapping your batteries. But after getting the unit here and running it for a little while.
I am impressed. It. You know, we're doing two to three gallon work when we're doing fungicide, but it is an 80 acre drone all day long at 2 gallons with one guy swapping batteries and filling tanks. So I'm curious to see how it's going to increase the efficiency of your operation, doing that high volume stuff, because you throw the extra sprayer nozzle kit on that sucker, that thing's gonna pump out 10 gallons a minute.
[00:48:17] Speaker B: So.
[00:48:17] Speaker A: So I am curious to see what, you know, where your acres per hour go.
[00:48:22] Speaker B: Yeah, me too. I'm really looking forward to operating it.
[00:48:25] Speaker A: Sweet. All righty. Well, there you go, guys. Listening to Eugene in California, I appreciate it again. We'll hopefully be talking soon.
[00:48:34] Speaker B: Sounds good. Take care.
